| The car has started to 'misfire' this morning.
At least thats what it feels like anyway. It happens in all gears
but is more pronounced when accelerating away. It feels like its
missing a cylinder or something, sort of chugging. The car is a
93 Mk1 with 38,000 miles on it, serviced 2000 miles ago, so does
it sound like the infamous spark plug lead problem? (1/00) |
| Yes! Red magnecores from Moss - or see www.magnecore.com
(I think you can get them direct from a UK agent). More expensive
than NGK, but the bee's knees - or even dog's b******s :-) (1/00) |
| I have just changed the leads , now have the same sort of missfire.
Put on prospark leads. Are these any good , should I replace with
the reds from magnecores ? (1/00) |
| I am getting a misfire/hesitation at low revs, mainly 2nd/3rd
gears at 20/28 mph respectively. (About 2200 rpm) Is this likely
to be the HT leads? The car, 1.8 Litre is a UK spec 1997 and has
only 23000 miles on the clock. Last serviced at 17000. (1/00) |
| It would seem that plugs or leads should be your first thought.
I've had leads go out any where between 15K and 30K miles and them
some others last as long as 45K. (1/00) |
| If I was you I would get some Magnecore HT leads from Moss - made
a big difference to ours last year (1/00) |
| Have have used both the NGK blue wires that Moss sell, and the
Magnecore 8.5 jobs, both are excellent sets of wires. (1/00) |
|
I had a similar problem about 2 months ago, the car never seemed
right since I had it, and a few months ago got progressively (but
quite quickly) worse. Really hesitating in 1/2/3rd...ok once you'd
got some speed up... I changed the Splitfire Ht leads for some
8.5mm Magnecor leads... The problem dissapeared completely, and
the car felt smoother and had better pickup than it had since
I bought the car over 12 months ago. The magnecors are excellently
made, one piece, the right lead size for each plug, with excellent
packaging and instructions, I cant praise them highly enough.
I would say change your leads to either the magnecors (www.magnecor.co.uk)
costs @62 quid 2 day delivery, or others on the list recommend
NGK leads available from Moss
motors about 40 quid. I think you'll find this is the problem,
it certainly was in my case and a lot of my friends 5's and in
any case is a good point to start at. (1/00)
|
| It DOES sound like the infamous spark plug lead problem. Get new
leads ASAP, as you will damage your cat if you continue driving
with damaged leads; unburnt fuel gets into the cat, burns and destroys
the cat. That is what happened to me some years ago. (1/00) |
|
I drove from Reading to Brentwood in Essex (with the top down
on the M25!). Went a fairly spirited pace but when I came off
and stopped at the first set of lights, the car stalled and wouldn't
start. Eventually started but seemed to be mis-firing considerably
Got my dad to come and tow me to his house and I called out the
RAC.
Very helpful guy came round but, as is the way, the car behaved
fine. He checked the plugs and leads and pronounced them all ok.
His opinion was that one of the sensors to the ECU was not working
meaning that when the car has been running hot and reasonably
hard for a while and then changes to a a slower pace, one of the
sensors tells the engine ........something! He then recomended
taking the car out again to get it warm so I spun it down a few
junctions and it was fine.
Part 2 - went to go home and got all the way around the M25.
Was doing about 90 most of the way until I came to join the M4.
Slowed down a bit and the car started doing exactly the same i.e.
very lumpy, stop starting, felt like it would stall if the revs
dropped at all. I pulled to the hard shoulder so as to leave it
for a while and see if things improved again but after 15 mins
when I started again, exactly the same problem after a few miles.
Repeated the exercise and the result was again the same.
Called out the RAC again. He fiddled about for ages without
doing anything before telling me that he thought that it could
be anything. This time the car just wouldn't start and when it
eventually would, it sounded like a tractor from the exhaust and
the exhaust fumes were stinking and dirty.
Tried to pin him down to something more specific and his thoughts
were:
Leads and plugs (checked and ok)
ECU Turbo problems (no more specific - can't think of what he
could mean)
Running too rich
This last one seems reasonable as I'm only getting about 180
miles to a tank. Is this about right?
Is my best bet to get it to a Mazda garage and put it on diagnostic
equipment? Does anyone know whether the '92 MK1 ECU has a fault
recording system so that they can see what's happened? RAC 1 said
no, RAC 2 said yes! (2/00)
|
|
Bear in mind I'm also a newcomer to this and the brief problem
I had was not quite as you describe but similar (ie fine at higher
revs, v.rough mid range) - and noting that we're looking for an
intermittent or temperature related fault - there could be other
causes but I'd go down the following path:
1. Have you ever put new plug leads on? From what I've read it
is always worth doing and you won't be wasting money to spend
#50 on good leads. Ditto new plugs.
2. Check all the intake hoses for loose/leaky connnections.
3. Disconnect the oxygen sensor (copper probe that goes into ex
manifold) - trace the wire back to the plug at top rear of engine
- disconnect the plug. Then try it - if consistently better disconnected
you probably need a new sensor - see www.realbig.com/miata
or www.miata.net for more info.
4. If still no better I'd try (I've not done this but only read
it) disconnecting the battery to avoid damage and simply open
up the plate in the passenger footwell then unplug and replug
the connectors in case there is a poor connection. The advice
is DO NOT wipe the connectors but you can spray switch cleaner
or WD40 on them before reconnecting.
5. Go to dealer. BTW - if the ECU or a sensor is playing up consistently
you should get an engine warning light on the dashboard - then
the diagnostics are invaluable. (2/00)
|
|
If you have some plug leads handy then give these a go. Also
check your plugs. It really does sound like a spark shortage!
Check for a fault code using an LED+resistor or get a Mazda garage
to do this. You open the diagnostic connector, connect TEN to
GND and then monitor the voltage between +B and FEN with the ignition
turned on but the engine not started. The ECU flashes code (hence
an LED is needed) using long and short flashes.
These two really are the obvious first steps. There are lots
of other things to test if these two don't fix/diagnose the problem.
The turbo does complicate matters, as I don't know much about
it, and I doubt many others do, but Mazda did OK the conversion
so should be able to fix the car! (2/00)
|
| These are classic symptoms of failed Plug Leads. When mine went,
a "mechanic" tested them and pronounced them fine!! The simple answer
is theres no easy way of testing them properly at the roadside.
Put on a new set, its worth it either way. (2/00) |
|
y far the most likely thing is the plug leads. "Checking them"
doesn't work - they will appear OK to multimeters, etc. The problem
is that they get damp, the insulation breaks down (but only under
high voltage) and they conduct straight into the head.
So, has your engine been washed recently - by you or the dealer/valet?
Probably got the plug leads wet - fatal. First thing is to get
new plug leads - I strongly recommend Magnecor 8.5mm (the expensive
red ones from Moss, or direct - see www.magnecor.com).
Others swear by the NGK (less expensive blue ones from Moss).
Don't buy cheapo ones, or pay for even more expensive trick ones.
The magnecores are about £50.
It's worth changing the plugs - use NGK BKR5E-11 I think for
a turbo.
It is most unlikely to be the ECU. It could be a sensor (but
frankly unlikely) There is a diagnostic check system - you can
interrogate it yourself, but it's too involved to go in to here.
Full details are in my manual (Use and Interrogation of the Diagnostic
Connector by John Cookson - £6 from Donutz - see
www.donutz.com .
Can't imagine what turbo problems could do this. You are risking
your cat. driving with unburnt fuel in the exhaust - due to plugs
not firing properly, because your plug leads have broken down......
Just my 2d long range diagnosis. Hope this helps.
BTW - there is no engine warning light on UK spec and Roadsters
- only on Miatas. There is a cat warning light on Roadsters, but
it only indicates cat overheating, and by then it's too late (2/00)
|
| Have you checked your fuel-pump? Is it working properly, connections
etc.? Used to have this problems with another car, never heard of
such problems with a 5 but since you are checking everything. (2/00) |
| I would suggest to check whether the crankshaft pulley wobbles.
Point a flashlight at it while the engine runs. If it does not wobble,
I would have a closer look at the ignition coils. (2/00) |
| Could it be another air flow meter problem? worth checking again
- is it possible that the arm 'inside' the afm is not picking up
a proper signal? (it looks like a coil with a pick up arm) (2/00) |
|
The problem that I'm experiencing is missing at maximum boost
(15psi on an FM2). Investigation has shown that there is no missing
at 12 psi or when I close the spark plug gap from 1.1 mm to 0.7
mm. Apparently, with the new software that I'm now running with
the ECU, I should be able to run stock plug gaps (e.g. 1.1 mm),
but evidently can't. (Just as an aside the reason for the missing
at high boost is that higher boost increases the resistance of
the fuel/air mixture and makes the voltage required to jump the
gap greater).
My problem is that I'd like to run 15 psi AND have a stock
plug gap (bigger spark = better burn and more power), So after
checking the grounds and contacts on the stock igniters and coils,
which I've yet to do (anyone know where the igniter or its associated
ground on a 1.6L is?)
I have a couple of choices as I see it,
1. Replace the stock igniters and coils and hope for an improvement
in supplied voltage and hence spark.
2. Go to an after market kit. There are 2 that I know of:
The HKS Twin Power Ignition Amplifier, see http://www.hksusa.com/html/ignitionsystems.htm
this kit is £420, and the SplitFire Direct Ignition System see
www.rspeed.net this kit is
$559 before shipping, VAT and import duty.
So does anyone know anything on the two after market kits
above before I spend hard earned cash? Or have ANY other suggestions
on how I could go about increasing the supplied voltage to the
spark plug.
FWIW I've just installed new Magnacore R-100 wires and NGK
ZFR7F-11's to eliminate these from the equation. (5/00)
|
| How about stick another car battery in series with the original
:-) - Or get a 24V truck battery. (5/00) |
| Serious kit! Can't contribute much, except the igniter is just
inside the rhs wing, just in front of the main fuse box. Ground
is the black wire, AIR. (5/00) |
|
You cannot run 1.1mm gap .. the stock gap is 0.8 to 1.0mm gap
.. and I misfired at 1.05mm at 14.5 psi. Running 0.7 to 0.8mm
gap will not significantly reduce power .. you try and sense that
lost power .. in extremes it will make the car harder to start
.. but that is down at 0.35mm gap (wild guess) .. just be happy
.. the driving instructor I was with the day from Knockhill races
a Cossy .. with 420hp .. he needs different spark plugs to start
the car .. and then changes over once the engine is warm!
How much data logging have you done on this.. when you get knock
it pulls the timing and the engine goes very 'flat' ..another
possible.
Check your spark plug voltage with a gap type tester .. cheap
and nasty from Halfords and I think I was about 22,000 V .. compared
to 18,000 V on my old Lancia with retro electronic ignition. This
tool will tell you high much you can get out of your system ..
but then remember the dwell goes up to 300 degrees after 6 psi
of boost .. you could simulate this boost by driving the MAP sensor
with a foot pump/tyre/compressor to 10 psi or so and cranking
the engine to record the voltage.
Basically you need the volts to punch through the dense mixture
.. and a reduced gap also helps.
Ignitor was an aluminium electric box on an inner wing on a
1.6 with the coils separate behind the engine (all from replies
to you off miatapower..)
I have thought of aftermarket coils .. not sure how much the
leads could take before the higher volts becomes a problem ...
and as plenty of others are running more boost than you with the
OE coils I would suspect something else.. but it is your money!!
.. the interesting one to me was someone on about aftermarket
motorbike coils .. these are normally wasted spark too so could
be a cheaper route .. HKS is pricey but not always good. (5/00)
|
| I hear what you're saying, but in my owners hand book the quoted
plug gap for a 1.6L is 1.0 to 1.1 mm. Also the '11' at the end of
all the Mazda recommended plugs for the 1.6L by NGK e.g BKR6E-11
indicates that they are all pre-gaped to 1.1 mm. The plug gap for
the 1.8L may be different though. As you say the power difference
between 1.1 mm and 0.7 mm will be small, but we have both paid out
a lot of money to get as many ponies out of our cars as we can,
seems a shame to waste couple here and there. Not sure where I will
go from here, I may just keep the small plug gap or go with after
market coils to get back to the 1.1 mm, I'll see how the car goes.
If you get chance see what gap you can run at 15 psi, if you have
to use a similar gap I'll feel happier, if only because I can rule
out a fault in my car. (5/00) |
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