| My 1998 Berkeley 1.8i hasn't got a limited slip
differential. What kind of cash are we talking to have one fitted?
I know it's a lot - but has anyone done this to a late model 1.8?
(2/00) |
| Mazdaspeed diff is about $600-800 plus shipping, but I don't know
what other bits are needed. Aren't there a couple of UK based Mazdaspeed
dealers? Alternative is to get a torsen diff off a post94 Roadster;
apparently pretty well standard in Japan. (93/early94 1.8's have
open diff). This was according to someone at the Kanazawa Roadster
Club. (2/00) |
| What's the difference? Torsen is 'Torque Sensing' I think - is
one better than the other? (2/00) |
| Regarding whether 1.8 Roadsters in Japan being fitted with a standard
torsen diff, I was told by Osamu at the Kanasawa Club that the torsen
diff (no viscous LSD on the NA8CE's) was included as part of the
electrics option (aircon, windows etc), so most post94/95 Roadsters
will have this. Early build 1.8's had apparently an enlarged oil
capacity version of the open (ie. non LSD) 1.6 diff, about which
there were complaints about amongst the autocrossing fraternity
in Japan (didn't last long; he changes the oil every 10-20000 kms.).
Ok, maybe these people were pushing the mechanics a bit hard. Probably
Mazda included the option later on to maintain sales. (I guess in
Japan they're not used to a model being around looking pretty well
the same for 8 years) A mate's Dec '93 Roadster 1.8 seemed to have
a similar diff (externally) to a 92 1.6. I've only seen snapshots
of a 1.6 diff and torsen diff side by side, and the Torsen diff
is much bigger, and is differently shaped. (2/00) |
|
Torsen LSD;
See this first http://members.aol.com/solomiata/miataCSP.html
1/ fitted to 1.8iS Mk2 cars .. find one, strip gears off it (wrong
ratio) and reset back lash... this is the easiest method .. but
I have not found one of these cars in a Breaker yard yet....
2/ Get one from Jay .. who already has 3 waiting for one .. from
Japan
3/ RX-7 TORSEN-1 from MazdaTrix will bolt right in. You'll want
new side bearings and will need to have them pressed on. MZTX-TORSEN1.....DIFF
TORSEN LSD....84-92 NON-TURBO...$ 762.95 = 476.85+50=680 in UK
4/. Mazda 1.8 Torsen MM02-27-200A = Torsen LSD = 657.14+VAT=772.14
in 6-8 weeks from UK dealer94 onwards LSD - might be MM02-27-200A=
Torsen LSD
5/ Mazdaspeed clutch type LSD; needs special oil and not as sophisticated
as Torsen in delivery
6/ Get one from a UK breaker .. I did after 8 months of hunting
intermittently ... it is still sat on the floor in front of my
car .. and needs a rebuild/tweak as they broke the outer cast
iron housing :-( ... although this is not major work .. just engineering
Blue, some special tools to make and a large vernier from work
for the night! .. and the real tale behind this part is interesting
..it is the grandfather of the MGF diff .. came off a '95 Miata
that Rover bought to evaluate while developing the MGF and then
stuffed at 18,000 miles a few years ago...
then see www.quithel.co.uk\zz_Transmission.htm
(2/00)
|
| I'm intrigued by what you said about when the Torsen diffs came
in. In "Renaissance Sportscar" Brian Long reckons that the Torsens
came in straightaway with the 1.8 cars, along with all the other
mods, e.g. suspension brace bars, bigger brake discs. In any case,
my late 93 VSpecial already had the "electrics option" you mentioned,
so maybe some comparisons might be in order here. (2/00) |
| I'm about to replace the differential oil in our car to use
Redline 75W/90 as recommended by several on the list. I thought
I'd better check - is it ok to use this with a limited slip diff
??? I assume I have an LSD (1993, UK spec), please correct me if
I'm wrong ! (4/00) |
|
Nearly all UK spec cars have an open differential and no LSD.
LSDs were additional cost items. A few special editions my have
had them, but I'm not certain, I guess other list members will
be able to help here. As you have a '93 there is only a viscous
LSD or clutch type LSD that will fit the standard rear diff. housing,
the viscous (most likely if there is one) will be OK with standard
diff. oil, the clutch type will not. The only other possibility
is that someone has put a 1.8L rear on the car, i.e. fitted the
differential casing, halfshafts and propshaft from a 1.8L and
then retro fitted a Torsen LSD into it, this is what I have done
with my late '92. In this case also you would be OK putting in
standard diff oil (I too have used redline 75/90).
There is no really convincing way to check for an LSD, perhaps
best to look on the original dealer order form and/or if it's
a limited edition check the specs. (4/00)
|
| You can find out if you have a LSD by jacking up the car under
the diff, and turning one back wheel. If the other turns the same
way, you have a LSD. If it turns the opposite way, you don't. Mine
has a viscous LSD. You can use Redline 75W90 in any 5 diff, open,
viscous LSD or Torsen LSD. (Note it is a 75W/90, but there are other
Redline 75W/90 oils. You want the one CALLED 75W90 (No stroke) (4/00) |
| This method of checking will not work with a torsen. (4/00) |
|
Not true on a Torsen LSD (as fitted to some 1.8 cars .. very
few .. don't get excited!) ..
best way I have ... is spinning your wheels on tarmac .. if you
spit hot rolls of rubber out of both wheels with heaps engine
power you have a LSD!! .. but need mugs to stand behind to catch
the rubber and a turbo/super....
.. so getting back to reality .. I would inspect inside the drain
plug .. difficult but sort of fool proof .. the real way is to
pull a driveshaft .. the Torsen has no 2mm pin across the hole
through the middle of the diff. (4/00)
|
|
If you don't want to end up with teeth from your diff pinging
about inside it listen for the telltale noises which came to me
in this order:
Tick tick tick like a stone in your tyre, variable with speed
After the car warms up (10mins), I got an occasional alarming
thrashing/clattering as though a bit of stiff wire was wrapped
around the driveshaft (but never when I took it to a garage, tut!)
When the diff goes you *really* know that something scary has
happened. (8/00)
|
| Can somebody explain in layman's terms what a Torsen LSD does
and what the benefits are? (4/01) |
|
Basically you have two extremes: -
"closed" diff: this would be the equivalent of a fixed axle between
the left and right wheels. Not good because your wheels cover
different distances in a turn. -
"open" diff: most used mechanical differential which allows the
left and right wheel to turn at different speeds. It transfers
all the power to the wheel with the least resistance (usually
the one on the inside of the turn you're taking). The downside
is that when a wheel starts spinning you lose all traction because
the open differential sends all the power to that wheel since
it has the least resistance.
And in between you have: - limited slip differential (LSD): allows
wheels to turn at different speeds but limits the power difference
between the wheels. Usually comes in two flavours:
+ viscous limited slip differential: limits the power difference
between the wheels utilising a viscous liquid and two plates turning
round in it.
+ torsen differential: pure mechanical solution to the problem.
There's an excellent site at: http://www.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm
which explains differentials with quite some detail. (4/01)
|
| What is a LSD? |
|
Same q asked on the OC forum the other day - here's the same
answer! :
Cars need a diff to enable the rear wheels to rotate at different
speeds (from each other) eg when you're going round a corner (the
outside wheel has to go further, therefore must rotate faster).
With an open (normal) diff, the design means that if a wheel
loses grip, all the power is directed to that slipping/spinning
wheel, and no power goes to the wheel which is stationary or moving
more slowly. Not good for getting grip on a slippery surface (eg
ice), but look at the situation if you're accelerating round a
bend. Inside wheel loses grip, power removed from outside gripping
wheel, so it won't lose grip and the back end will stay more or
less in contact with the road, but you won't accelerate (because
the power is being spun away uselessly). Unskilled drivers will
stay in control. But if you're a skilled driver, driving for performance,
you might want the outside wheel to provide grip so you can accelerate
in this situation. Get it slightly wrong, though, and you'll put
too much power to the one gripping wheel, it'll lose grip and
you'll spin.
A limited slip diff allows this - it helps to provide some grip
in very slippery conditions, and it helps a skilled driver to
accelerate more quickly through a corner where the forces might
be causing a wheel to loose grip. It also helps a less skilled
driver to spin off in such circumstances. LSDs can make the car
feel twitchy. You come across three types of LSD in MX-5s - early
Roadsters often have viscous LSDs - these provide only a small
amount of 'lock-up' - resistance really - and are fairly benign.
Good for getting away from a sharp corner or hairpin bend.
Most or all Roadster 1.8s and some UK 1.8 versions (Mk 1 & 2),
have Torsen LSDs - these work well, but can feel twitchy. Some
Roadsters have been retro fitted with clutch type LSDs - these
are the full monty, mostly designed for track use, and can feel
very rough for road use. You can adjust their characteristics
with use of friction modifier in the diff oil. Best avoided for
road use. (End of the quote)
You can tell if you've got one if you jack the back end of the
car up and turn a wheel by hand. If the opposite wheel turns the
same way, it's got an LSD. If it turns the other way, it's open.
Sometimes it helps if you hold the propshaft stationary whilst
you do this. And it doesn't always work anyway. (1/03)
|
| On a loose surface, put on full lock and drive slowly round in
a circle, if you have an LSD the rear tyres will scrub and you will
hear it. (1/03) |
| |