| Is it possible to buy "high performance" brake
fluid with a higher boiling point, or is this a futile attack on
the symptoms rather than the cause? Do stainless steel brake lines
conduct significant heat? (I don't have them) (2/00) |
| Yes, you can get high-performance fluid with higher temperature
thresholds... When you lost braking though, did the pedal go to
the floor (boiling braking fluid) or did it just firm up with no
effect on braking (overheating pads -- fade)? (2/00) |
| I remember it going spongy, although I quite pre-occupied with
avoiding an accident my memory is a little fogged. (Suffice to say
I don't drive like this any more). Any recommendations for performance
fluid? Is this the kind of thing Halfords do? (2/00) |
|
Get a Demon Tweeks catalogue (or go buy something like Fast Car
- or Revs?). Anything with some performance mail order companies
etc.
Get some Dot5 or Racing Fluid. There is probably some form of
compromise though with using these performance fluids - can anyone
expand? There must be a reason why Mazda don't just use the best
fluid in the first place (being that the '5 is a sports car and
could be driven hard). Or is it just a cost factor? Will high-performance
fluid need changing more often/wear out seals quicker? (2/00)
|
|
ATE Type 200, easy to get, red or ATE Superblue Racing, hard
to get, blue
Both are the exact same stuff except for the colour, which is
an advantage if one alternates between the two sorts - the new
fluid is easy to spot when the brakes are bled. (2/00)
|
| To be perfectly honest, unless you hanker after a few track days,
the standard fluid should be more than up to the job. If you manage
to get DOT5 fluid boiling whilst driving on the road, either you're
unlucky or plain stupid. (2/00) |
|
Don't get DOT 5 fluid - it's silicone based fluid and
is guaranteed to make your brakes feel spongy. It is not hygroscopic,
however, and is supposed to last forever. It is used by the US
military and Harley Davidson, amongst others.
What you want is DOT 5.1 - despite the similar name completely
different stuff (Polyglycol based). This is synthetic fluid, otherwise
similar to DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluid. It is available in Bendix brand
and no doubt others. Easily obtainable from brake specialists.
Castrol do a range of brake fluids which are described as synthetic
high performance alternatives to DOT 5.1, but meet DOT 4. Most
are cheaper than Bendix DOT 5, except for Castrol SRF which is
a racing DOT 4 fluid with a very high boiling point and is very
expensive. (4 times the price of Bendix DOT 5.1) BTW, although
DOT 5 (silicone fluid) is a bit oddball, and the makers say not
to mix it with other fluid, in fact all stuff sold as brake fluid
must, by law, be miscible with any other brake fluid. But if you
mixed it, you'd have to change it. Best bet is to go with DOT
5.1 (I use Bendix) and change it every two years. It is no more
corrosive or anything re seals, etc, but it has a higher boiling
point with a given water content than DOT 3 or most DOT 4's. The
compromise is cost. (About 10 a litre, which is what you need
for a fluid change)
Confusing or what? BTW - you have to be very careful using "racing"
oils and fluids on the road. Most have special characteristics
to give excellent protection, but short term - they assume you'll
be stripping your engine, brakes, gearbox etc frequently or at
least changing fluids very often - several times per season. So
there may be no detergent in engine oil, no noise reducing additives
in gearbox oil, etc etc. Often not at all suitable for extended
use on the road. (2/00)
|
|
Your average car parts place will have Girling Dot 5.1 brake
fluid, note that Dot 5 is silicon based (I think?) and this is
note a good thing if pushing on .. as the boiling point is about
the same as 18 month old Dot 5.1. So the higher the boiling point
the more hydroscopic it gets (absorbs water) and so the quicker
it deteriorates .. hence the racing boys change it before every
race.
I just use Girling 5.1 .. about 7 GBP instead of 5 GBP for Dot
4... for enough to bleed the brakes and clutch .. and I do it
every year as performance of any stuff goes off after 6 months
.... all in a steep descent until it approaches min boiling ..
and it keeps the bleed nipples free .. in reality only the bit
in the calipers and hoses needs replaced .. it is black from the
carbon in the seals .. and more golden from the heat.
Main cause of water getting into system is the rubber hoses ..
very permiable to water .. not sure on the SS lines but I suspect
they are 50-100% less transparent to water (wild guess!) .. so
not only do they improve feel (less expansion under pressure)
but they probably make the brake fluid last longer. .. what I
really cannot explain is why we still use brake fluid .. it is
bad for absorbing water, poor lubricity, destroying paint work,
making your hands yellow .. a pretty toxic material .. but it
is uncompressible (relatively) and has a high boiling point (relatively)
... the silicon alternatives never took off .. lower boiling points
and the water may pool in the pipes so the corrosion/vapour lock
problems are worse. .. it is possible to feel the fade coming
in .. a fast drive down Cairn'a'Mount up here does it to Moss
HP as well as standard pads.. but you can feel it coming so back
off well before. (2/00)
|
|
There are high(er) temperature fluids. However, unless one is
actually racing the car these are prablematic because they are
even more hygroscopic and deteriorate even faster, and threfore
require changing out even more often. Much better to use the specified
fluid and change it often. At a proper brake place here it doesn't
take long at all, especially using a power bleed where the reservoir
is slightly pressurised and the bleed nipples opened.
As to your other question, the pipelines themselves really have
nothing to do with it. It is the fluid in the calipers that boils,
and naturally that fluid is the the fluid that is most contaminated
by water; though it does gradually suffuse through the system.
(2/00)
|
|
Or, it hasn't been changed often enough, which in most cases
is ignorance rather than stupidity.
Though if one is standing at the pearly gates with steering wheel
in hand, ignorance is really not an excuse; more so if Mum and
a couple of kids are also in the line. (2/00)
|
| Couple of thoughts on this thread. I hardly ever use the brakes,
I guess it's a matter of driving style mostly but surely you have
to be on a hell of a mission to promote brake fade even on the open
road. Track day - different kettle of fish, obviously. If you don't
drive down an alp (rare in UK) most sane people would be just fine
on 10 yr old brake fluid, & a large proportion of motorists are.
I had the stainless steel hoses on my old elan, they were excellent.
There is a certain springiness to the brake pedal which is due to
(slight ) ballooning of the rubber hoses, with the stainless steel
hoses it was like the pedal was direct on metal. I'll probably upgrade
my roadster when I'm flush again. I was quite taken with the idea
of the non- hygroscopic silicone based fluid & if it is slightly
compressible, with stainless steel hoses, you'd probably still have
a more solid pedal than standard. Given funds I'm going to look
into a low cost 4 pot caliper 11in disc upgrade usinf RX7 calipers
and cosworth rotors, I guess that'll be nearer summer. I'm not ecstatic
about the mk1's braking system as standard. I'll let you know if
it's a goer. (I have a prejudice against sliding calipers & the
4 pot calipers look so tasty through the wheel spokes & the RX7
bits have mazda written on so they look pukka) (2/00) |
|
Whilst Richard at Maztek was replacing my bushings in a speedy
and professional manner last Friday (more of which later) I was
busy destroying the inner seal of my offside rear brake caliper.This
resulted in a steady flow of brake fluid and the loss of this
caliper for the trip back - Richard used a ball bearing to close
off the brake pipe so no more fluid lost. [Aside - I know the
fronts do most of the work but I was surprised at how little difference
losing the use of one of the rear brake brakes made. Indeed it's
only when using the handbrake that it's absence is an issue -
the single caliper does a good job on it's own!] Val at Scimitar
came to the rescue with a re-build kit and it only remains for
me to rebuild the wayward caliper. I got the full monty rebuild
kit - all seals, new piston and adjuster. My anxiety: I've never
even bled brakes let alone rebuilt them and notwithstanding Val's
reassurances and the offer of Steve at DS Engineering to act as
"phone guide" (premium rates to apply!) I'd appreciate some guidance
from pro caliper rebuilders.I have a track day on Monday so will
only have one shot at this - the weekend.
1. The brake pipes are S/S so cannot be closed off with pliers
so how do I stop fluid spraying out when I take off caliper? (I'm
removing whole unit to do re-build as doing it in situ too restricted
and I have no garage) Do I use the "Featherlite method" a johnny
and gaffer tape?
2. I'll probably have no assistance - which "one man brake
bleeder" system is best i.e. "does what it says on the tin"?
3. Will I need special tools other than usual spanners and
sockets? (6/01)
|
|
If you trap a small sheet of plastic (plastic bag?) under the
master cylinder cap it helps to reduce the rate at which fluid
runs out. That together with the prophylactic should limit fluid
loss.
The only special tool you need is circlip pliers (for an external
circlip) - I have a pair which you can adjust for internal/external.
You can probably get by without - but I always lost circlips under
pressure before I got the pliers!
Clean everything with brake fluid, and wet the new seals with
brake fluid as you go. Be careful not to score the cylinder when
you remove the piston seal. You may have a problem removing the
piston - the official method is compressed air. Sometimes they
come out easily, sometimes not. Use the local garage tyre thing
if really stuck.
I think I use a Gunson Eazi-Bleed kit - it has a valve on the
end of a plastic pipe. It's easier if you can get someone to press
the brake pedal while you run around the car though. It helps
considerably if you can support the car all round and get all
4 wheels off.
You'll need to bleed all round - change the fluid whilst you're
at it. The fluid level in the master cylinder goes down very quickly!
You'll probably get through a couple of litres of brake fluid
with the cleaning as well. (6/01)
|
| |
| |
|